3
I
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me kri it
must have been hard to tell the
difference between the screeching of the
tires and the screaming of the torture
victims the backfiring of the Ferraris
and Mercedes souped up racing cars and
the volleys of shots being fired at the
people whose country was being burned up
by the hot shots of Formula 1 there was
blood on the tracks but no one in the
industry or the media which advertises
it so well spoke about it the truth
about Bahrain is this a tiny corrupt and
absolute monarchy dictatorship is
massacring and torturing the Democracy
protesters who represent the
overwhelming majority of the people of
Bahrain and the dictatorship is being
armed trained and financed by the
British and American governments and
their client satrapies in the Gulf here
at least we look on the other side of
the tracks the side being deliberately
concealed behind the advertising
Holdings and joining us for a few laps
of the truth is S Ahmed a bahin
democracy activist here in London side
thanks for coming on the Sputnik must
have been painful for you to watch them
frolicking in Formula 1 having a whale
of a time when you knew what was going
on just uh few hundred meters from the
track tell us about how that felt uh
thank you for uh inviting on this show I
mean in 2012 I was there in Bahrain and
I witnessed all of that the Formula 1
race how people in one side cheering up
enjoying the race and at the same time
on that weekend there was a man was shot
by the police by the right police he was
killed his body was found his family was
not allowed to see him uh for for really
few hours and then the country was in
two size one size and the vast maj of
the people were attending a fural of
someone who was killed by the right
police burying his body to the graveyard
uh so that that was the real scene
Formula 1 uh did uh cancel the Grand
Prix when the revolution in bahin began
but they have since reinstated it what's
the feeling of the people about the
economic benefit that the uh that the
Grand Prix brings in several hundred
million dollars they say well the
reality is there is no really much
benefit to the people I mean you
couldn't really talk about you couldn't
really talk about the race why there is
instability in the country I mean
everyone would love to see the race if
the country is stable everyone would
really enjoy in 2004 many people used to
go to the Formula 1 and enjoy the race
however to see such a Crackdown on those
people and and and I mean you talk about
someone who was killed during the
weekend of that race and there is no
justice to him
last year his killer was acquitted uh
and in 2013 two ladies were arrested at
the Formula 1 circuit itself nafisa and
ran musawi they've been charged with
terrorist act H right now they are
serving five years imprisonment Rana was
talking about how she was severely
tortured she was they basically stripped
her clothes sexually abused her she talk
about severe kind of torture that no one
would really imagine where is she now
she remains in the jail and the Formula
One do not really care much about her
safety or how about Justice for the
family of Salah Abbas he lift up fif
kids five kids and that's that's that's
that's the reality so where is the
business the business for the banians
are is is the struggle where they could
really they go every day on the street
where they will be subject to Collective
punishment by the right priest the
amount of tear gas well we know what I
to understand because bahin is so tiny
it's perhaps uh the size of croon yeah
with a population of 1.3 of which more
than half a million are actually non
Nationals yeah are workers expect yeah
so um how do you in such a tiny Place
have the race and so that means you have
to have a lots of police keeping all the
protesters away from it yeah to to keep
the race clean make it look okay yeah I
mean in that term bahin during the
Formula 1 will turn up to be and declare
martial state
you will see checkpoints in every single
entry and exit of of all Villages this
dictatorship is uh as gatri said in the
introduction tiny yeah totally
dictatorial uh foreign was in
established there by the British yeah uh
and is now bringing in experts to guard
it yeah uh from the anger of the people
how's that going to work the royal
family they don't they would never trust
in the bahini people therefore they
believe in bringing exps naturalizing
changing the demography of the country
which is a serious a serious concern in
a country where its population do not
exceed 500,000 these are the native
people and they try to rebalance in
order to make to tell the world that oh
everything is stable we got XS we got I
mean they want to make a different how
to say it
I mean if you talk about a country where
the number of journalists being arrested
are only three but considering the size
of this country by cpj committee to
protect uh journalist it has been rated
the second country in the world
arresting journalists if you talk about
the three if in a single protest in
bahin you will see 300,000 protesting on
a street what does that tell you oh it
tells you that at least three fifths of
the people of course of bahin want rid
of this dictatorship and yet the British
and American governments the American
fifth Fleet is there in bahin the
British are supplying police Chiefs of
course uh dubious export If Ever I saw
one uh armaments training and so in fact
you were laughing at the the website
today of the the British foreign office
say it said the first line of the report
said that 2013 saw positive developments
in Bahrain for human rights
how can you start a report like that it
went on to say and we are giving them
assistance in weapons arms training and
so on it's even going beyond that I mean
in on the 27th of March Barony had uh
just answered one of the questions at
the parliament about the torture
allegations in Bahrain and her reply was
uh FCO has not received any evidence of
torture to extract confessions to get a
a country like bahin where the torture
being documented on daily basis and it's
been reported by Human Rights Watch
amnesty Internationals you wouldn't see
a week without a statement by those NOS
to talk about how horrific the torture
is I mean people begin to talk about
details of being electrocuted I've been
a a victim of torture in bahin myself
and I know the reality what it means to
be inside those C to be in I mean in
bahin the central Pres for example Joe
you will see F expects you will see the
guards those which will look your cell
which they don't speak your own language
many of them are from Pakistan from
various countries and it's it's it's
that sad
that for example who is serving two
years and they're even they're even
locking up doctors yeah surgeons who
trying to help the protest yeah I mean
there was a case of 51 doctors which
many of them got 15 years sent for
treating the wound yes of the victims
and right now there is yeah and right
now there is right now he is serving
five years in prisonment and you talk
about adani who is another nurse who
lost his
son because of the arrest in the country
and then they take they took the feather
and right now he is serving three years
in prisonment what uh what torture did
you suffer I mean I mean you could look
at the skirt from on my on my face this
this is due to the beatings by the
police when they attacked the per
roundabout on 17th of of February I mean
it was a matter of it was about I was
about to die on that day the the wounds
all over my body probably this is the
clearest sign but then because I spoke
to seever I mean different uh news
channels about me as a victim as and as
a witness of what has happened on that
on that night and then I got myself
arrested and being sent in military
court for for a year uh obviously the
kind of torture imagine when you're
being slapped in the face your ordinary
action is to put your hand to protect
yourself these guys were fighting your
own instincts that if you raise your
hand to protect your it means you will
get more slabs fighting you with your
own body that okay we are going to slap
you but we don't want to see any
reaction from you it's is the kind of
torture where you get blindfolded most
of the time get spat in the face a
humilated insulted uh insult you they
will insult your family your sex it's
all this kind of things but what is
mostly hurting is that when you get that
person who is insulting you he's not
from your country he is an exp coming to
your own country and judging and
questioning your loyality to the country
I
uh I have been talking about torture in
bahin for more than 25 years in the
British Parliament yeah and so for
baroness vary yeah to now say there is
no evidence of torture in bahin yeah
when at least a quarter of a century ago
and until now yeah I have been placing
in front of the British Parliament
evidence of electrocution of torture of
every kind of murder kidnapping
disappearance yeah is really frankly uh
very difficult to Bear uh how long is it
going to last last Fe February
celebrated the third anniversary of the
Revolution if you look at the size of
the people who are still going on
streets and fighting for the very same
cause if you look at peaceful protesters
or human rights activist such as nir
rajab who is behind behind bars still
give calls to people outside to tell
them
that this jail means nothing to him if
he comes out he will be the same
everyone knows to see those people when
they lift the prison and being through
this extreme torture they come out they
come outside and they next day they will
join the street what does that tell you
at the same time those people are facing
the Saudi intervention we have Saudi
troops on our on our soil we have the
British advisers there we have the
Americans which again I mean looking at
a country where its Army being
naturalized you talk about foreign
troops existing in the country and all
of that and people are still fighting
and still struggling I think with that
Spirit you will prevail thank you very
much indeed for joining us coming up
after the break is the conservative
party high flyer who'd cut a dash behind
the wheel of a Ferrari himself Tor MP
Zack
Goldsmith
welcome back to the Sputnik now all that
glisters is not gold as Shakespeare told
us but Zack Goldsmith is a diamond in
the rough of a conservative party mered
in one or two local difficulties with
some of its MPS you'd never catch my
next guest pretending his first home was
in basing Stoke indeed I can hardly
imagine him filling an expenses form at
all he's more likely to be found with a
stiff broom sweeping out the mess that
has become West Minister with new and
revolutionary proposals to transform
Britain's stagnant duckpond over
democracy where MPS are told what to say
and what to do even if they don't
believe it 5 years after the great
expense Scandal they're still claiming
off the taxpayers to keep their horses
warm in the Stables during the cold
winter David Cameron said this week that
we had a court good and honest
Parliament unquote but not many people
see it that way in any case Zach
Goldsmith's come up with a plan whereby
the public can deal with erant MPS in a
way the American citizens already can
and do namely by exercising the right of
recall and I'm glad to say Zach gold
smith MP joins us now Zach you are one
of the MPS uh that David Cameron was
referring to both uh honest and
hardworking uh but as I say not many
people see it that way we've seldom been
in uh lower public esteem yeah and it
and you you can look at the data people
pulling away from political parties you
can look at voter turnout or you can
just look at the anecdotal stuff turn on
the radio listen to people on LBC or any
other program hurling abuse at
politicians and what shocks me and
depresses me is that there is an
appalling level of complacency in
Parliament about this as if it's a phase
and you and I know that this hasn't come
about because of expenses all that
happened in the expenses Scandal is that
it authenticated a Prejudice that people
already felt in relation to politics but
the that feeling has been growing for
years is the Maria Miller case uh has
just brought everyone back to 5 years
ago to the Daily Telegraph uh uh story
which erupted
volcanically uh over the British uh
political system many parliamentarians
thought that that Ash had uh been
brushed away but it's all back again
isn't it it's back again and and I think
it'll keep on coming back because if you
if you rely on Parliament to police
itself you're always going to have these
problems so you've got a choice you
either allow Parliament to police itself
that's discredited you create a new
quango experts to decide whether or not
you and I are playing by the rules I
wouldn't trust that system I think
particularly for independent-minded MPS
like yourself you could say like myself
as well I think that would be a
dangerous or you can trust the voter
those are the three choices and and
unfortunately there is a sense a sense
of Terror when it comes to any Prospect
of actually empowering voters there's a
fear of democracy there ironic given
that we're all there for Democratic
reasons indeed the voter uh is the only
one that can be trusted in this picture
I've been before the uh double standards
and privileges uh committee uh staffed
by some of the same people who cleared
uh uh Miss Miller uh and they ried uh
absolutely partial and politicized uh
Injustice against me uh and so I know
that I wouldn't put uh my trust in them
uh you would put your trust in the in
your voters what democra this this is
this is an idea whose Time Has Come
you've been pioneering it it's not you
didn't invent it already exists in
America but you've been pioneering it
here and I really think this is a moment
for you it is a really simple thing and
by the way it was promised by all three
mainstream parties in the heat of the
last expensive Scandal they said okay
the solution is we'll bring in a recall
system after the election that appetite
for reform evaporated and eventually
there was a sense that they had to come
up with something otherwise it would
look like a promise broken and they
developed something called a it was a
draft recall bill I don't know whether
you've read that bill I have read that
bill it is the opposite of recall
instead of empowering voters it empowers
the same parliamentary committee that
ruled on you the same parliamentary
committee that was discredited in recent
days over Maria Miller and they decide
whether or not an MP qualifies to recall
and once they've made that decision an
MP is toast you can't survive the the
next few steps you're finished as far as
I'm concerned recall is a pure and
simple Democratic thing you allow people
if enough of them agree if enough of
them sign a petition they earn the right
to have a referendum do they want George
way to stay or go and if the majority
want you to go you go and there's a by
elction it's pure unarguable democracy
it's perfectly possible to consult the
people you wouldn't even have to have uh
ballot boxes on a wet Thursday in every
school as to whether Zach Goldsmith
should stay or go it could be done by
electronic means and very quickly
quickly and cheaply and and the key is
that there should be no criteria I mean
I've had this argument many had
arguments earlier today with politicians
and there it it all comes back to a sort
of fear of democracy what about if you
take an unpopular View and you're thrown
out well my answer to that is it's
democracy you know what about if people
had you know been recalled over the Iraq
War great we wouldn't have had the Iraq
War it it's um every single argument
against recall comes back to that same
basic fear of democracy and if you look
around the world where Reco exists there
is not a single example anyone has been
able to give me not one of a successful
vexatious campaign so there have been
recalls but none which widely accepted
as having been unfair you can trust
voters they can they're capable of
making a good judgment by the way I had
an argument yeser an argument a month
ago with an MP it was the only debate
I've had with an MP against recall no
one else admits that they don't approve
of recall and he on principle opposed
recall he said it's a representative
democracy you sent us there you let us
do our job he's changed his view now
because he became embroiled in a
controversy and he realized that you
cannot trust the social media you can't
TR trust the mainstream media you can't
trust the newspapers you can trust
constituents he got a fair ing at home
he was Vindicated in the end he was
cleared of all charges he was innocent
and his constituents knew that long
before the newspapers backed off his
view on recall has completely changed
because ultimately if you can't trust
your
constituents let's not bother with any
elections let's do away with democracy
just to play The Devil's Advocate a bit
when you say there's no requirement does
it mean you the public the the
constituents can any time without any
reason just Callum this you you would
need to have a relatively high threshold
um otherwise you get party Shenanigans
so you don't want to make it possible
for the opposition party to just
endlessly trigger re referendums but if
you have a sort of 20% that's about
average around the world 20% is a lot in
in your in my case it would mean about
14,000 people signing a petition saying
we want an opportunity to vote on
whether or not to get rid of that now
14,000 people signed that petition I
would not be able to dismiss that as a
the game of my oppos of the opposition
party in my area I wouldn't be able to
put it down to the you know the unions
or the some campaign group I'd have to
accept that there was a serious problem
and I'd want the opportunity then to to
to ensure that I had a clean and proper
mandate because you could then stand in
the subsequent B you stand again you
could be Vindicated that way and ideally
you would simply win the referendum
because once you get to 20% you then
have a referendum and it's a simple
thing do you want him to stay or go and
if more than half in a byelection said
they wanted me to go I think I'd
probably accept that I was in the wrong
job and I'd go but but but you're right
you would have the opportunity to stand
again if you felt that that there was an
opportunity for you and of course it
wouldn't mean that uh that one was wrong
even if one lost if one was forced into
a referendum because one took a stand on
this issue or that issue people didn't
like it but you really believed it if
you lost there would be no shame in
losing and later you would be Vindicated
Charles James Fox the greatest of all
the British parliamentarians was Thrice
expelled from the British Parliament but
carried back by the people and
remembered in a golden light in uh
history when those who expelled him are
long forgotten that's the thing if you
are if you are challenged on principle
people respect you for that and I think
in any case it's very rare that an MP
would that would lose the confidence of
his or her constituents on an issue of
principle I think you you might lose the
arguments but people at least respect
you for being honest and and declaring
your view in a clear and and and and and
direct manner where people will fall
foul of this with recall is if they
behave badly if they don't bother
turning up to Parliament you know the
rules at the moment allow you or I we
could go on holiday now until the next
election we could go hang out together
in Barbados on a beach for a year we
wouldn't have broken a single rule we
could not go to Parliament We could
decide to boycott our constituents
refuse to engage with them we could
switch parties we could do any of these
things without any opportunity of for
our constituents to challenge that it's
an it's an absurd situation we call
would keep people on their toes at all
times and there's a really fundamental
reason why I think that's important as
you know we have a situation now where
Parliament is not doing its job it's not
holding government to account most MPS
when they vote they don't even know what
they're voting on there have been times
when I haven't followed the debate I've
rushed to the door I've asked the whips
what is what's the issue what's this
amendment and they haven't been able to
tell me I've hovered and asked other MPS
what is this amendment and the most
they'll do is say this way that's the
way that's way you should go and I have
abstained on votes for that reason but I
can tell you that if you were to stand
in central Lobby and ask the first 20
MPS to emerge from a vote on a technical
Amendment what have you just voted on
almost all of them will simply shrug
their shoulders and for me that's a
bigger Scandal than the expensive
Scandal it is much bigger we have a
parliament of as I described at one
poodles with pagers they don't have
pagers anymore they don't need them uh
they bark when they're told to bark bite
when they're told to bite they are
Pavlov's very dogs uh and that's the
real crisis uh of British parliamentary
democracy that Tweedle D Tweedle Dum two
cheeks of the same backside or three
cheeks if you throw in the liberal
Democrats people who believe in things
like you do and like I do are very rare
birds were're called loners and uh and
we're not Mavericks we're not uh we're
not team players but I never saw
Politics as some kind of team game where
the MPS are the crowd cheering on their
uh their team agree I mean our job
there's no job description for an MP but
if there was it would simply say hold
government to account on behalf of your
constituents you can't do that if you
have a voluntary labotomy the moment you
enter Parliament if you're going to do
everything you're told if your vote can
be taken for granted by your party at
any given moment that you you cannot
hold the government to account they'll
take your vote for granted you become
what they refer to as Lobby fod if
you're not willing to use that one tool
the only thing you and I have that other
people watching this program don't have
is the ability to vote in Parliament and
if you're not willing to use that vote
strategically you might as well be
replaced by a laptop computer yeah so
what can we do Zach uh are you going to
introduce this bill of yours for genuine
recall it the bill es and flows there
are times I think I'm going to win of
times I think I'm going to lose I think
the Maria Miller case there's a silver
lining turn I think it's put this issue
right back on the agenda I think that
now there's an acceptance by the Prime
Minister and even nickle that the
standards committee has been completely
discredited you can't have that
middleman body to decide whether or not
the voters have the right to hold their
MP to account I think that's now
accepted what I hope we don't get is
some absurd uh recall that says you can
only be recalled if you've got a
custodial sentence if you go to jail
it's got to be down to the discretion of
the voter that's my campaign now I think
we' got a window of about a month to win
that win those arguments and your help
with that is already invaluable let me
know if I can help you well uh if the
double standards and privileges
committee goes down at least its
chairman got a Knighthood out of
it well as Zach said the Maria Miller
case has definitely been a cloud over
the parliament this last few days but it
does have a silver lining it does return
this whole issue center stage and as
Zach said we ought to listen to the
people gy red gloves and all and red
shoes was out there doing just that yeah
I think she's right to resign she can't
continue to you know the normal everyday
person can't get away with that kind of
thing so why should she and she's done
the right thing she's stepping down the
public uproar is not going to cease
until she does so yeah I think she's
done the right thing they get paid
enough really so why should they be
claiming expenses well yeah she should
have resigned earlier because her
apology was so bad and I kind of um you
know makes David Cameron look like a bit
of an idiot because he is supporting
someone who the rest of his party isn't
supporting yeah of course it's wrong um
you know if I fiddle my expenses I'd
lose my job if it was anyone else in
normal circumstances they would be
punished for it I'm a true blue I will
not be voting blue conservative in the
European or next year Li them or you
them no uh lib them no even worse the
whole three I don't trust anybody
anymore unfortunately that's all we've
got time for keep in touch with us
though on Twitter at rtor Sputnik and on
Facebook you can like us on Sputnik on
Russia today it's goodbye from me gatri
and from me George Galloway it's been
marvelous